Didn't expect to see something I made on HN while my wife is trying to find something to watch on TV.
So about the site in case anyone is interested. I made it with a friend who was studying multimedia. He helped with the data and I did the coding. Took about a week or two.
The site was originally Flash (remember that). But I ported it to HTML5 a few years ago. It still has those Flash vibes I think. Posted the code to GitHub when I ported it. I did this mostly to keep it alive for old times sake.
So about the mobile support. I planned to do it but got sidetracked building a custom WebGL map renderer because phone performance was poor. However I never finished, life finds a way to get in the way and all that... I have some mobile designs lying around.
The other issue was when I first built the site YouTube didn't really play ads much at all, just those little text ads, and you could embed the player really tiny. So it worked better. In the original flash version I actually hid the video player. But that got the site blacklisted from YouTube, I asked a Google engineer on a dev forum to put a word in and they removed the block, very different times, this was back when Google was a different beast, and you could chat to real people online and the dev communities were much smaller.
I have a illustration of a much bigger map in my sketchbook. It has a lot more subgenres and interconnected things like historical events and so on. But it's huge unfolded, like 2x1.5m or something ridiculous.
I miss those days when the web was full of weird and experimental stuff. I grew up with Newgrounds and Geocities, I'm sure it's all still out there buried under a giant pile of SEO optimised refuse.
Younger people would never understand how amazing the internet was back in the 90s. Particularly before ads and SEO became an industry.
Also Flash, most people don't realize what we lost with Flash. The amount of non-professional multimedia content available was so great. It was a cooking ground for people to experiment with animation ideas. Very low hanging fruit.
HTML5/Canvas/CSS just don't have that accessibility.
Now the internet is a complete different beast. There are 10 main websites that everyone sees only, and everyone wants to monetize. All content is full of "antipatterns" to maximize monetization. It's very very sad.
Aaaanyway, sorry for the rant. I love your website. I'm a Metalhead myself, and this year I'll go back to Wacken for a 2nd time after 15 years!!
Thanks so much for this write up. It’s not often thought of that when you put something weird and experimental online just for fun that you’re signing up for years of careing and feeding. But that’s also kind of nice, it makes you go engage with your cool thing long after your impulse drove you to make it.
This is a cool thing. I hope you enjoyed remembering about it again today.
I was looking through this, seeing the years radius and having my expectations validated/refuted was really fun! Lots of yeah but no, or no way but yeah? The curation of it is really respectable no matter my own taste and that is something that is in real low stock. Thanks for making my day and I'll add a few respectful issues when I can
Very cool. Explored a lot of nodes, rekindled some old bands. I was wondering how this was vibe coded, since it was done so well, art wise. Then I read your post. This has such a different feel for whatever is usually made today, I really enjoyed it. Cheers
Absolutely fantastic project! I completely understand you've got other things going on, but for me on Firefox mobile, I'm seeing a YouTube pop-up window for Black Sabbath and I don't see any obvious way to close it.
I'd love of this showed me the spiritual successors of a band / sub-genre even if they're not mainstream or well known. For example, I really love Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and a number of other "classic" Heavy Metal bands with a slow, hard but not sludgy brooding sound and amazing vocals. But it's hard finding modern acts with a similar sound. What tends to happen when I search for modern metal is I end up finding stuff that is more a descendant of speed metal, or thrash, or black metal... and none of that really strikes the right chord for me.
There used to be a thing like 20-ish years ago called Musicovery that could sort of do this if you clicked around.
You ever heard of Every Noise at Once? You can search for an artist, see the genres they belong to, and then look for artists nearby in 2D musical space (oversimplified a bit to be fair) within that genre. I've found it's generally pretty accurate, and I've found plenty of new artists this way.
Unfortunately no longer being updated, but still has a fantastic backlog of new-ish artists.
Historical comment only. I first listened to this music in the late 1970s. One big change in the story, over time, is how few people trace the sound to Hendrix now. (Not this map in particular. Metal fans I know would agree with the map.) I think (?) a common current viewpoint is that Led Zep [!?] was foundational but the genre really started with Black Sabbath and Judas Priest.
Which, definitions change. But in 1977 I listened to Purple Haze and, sure, it was "Psychedelic Rock" as indicated on the map. 100%! But it was also almost definitionally metal. Forty-nine years ago, I mean, not today.
[!?] I love Zeppelin. But I would have been laughed out of high school if I'd compared them to metal, or claimed they were even hard rock.
Great map. There might be some categories missing, couldn't find any Katatonia, Agalloch, Alcest nor Tiamat. Alcest and some Deftones are considered blackgaze and Agalloch, Wolves in the Throne Room fall more into grey metal.
It's interesting because some of these bands are older than these terms. Alcest wasn't considered blackgaze until albums inspired by their own sound became popular, for example.
Metal also has history where a genre is aesthetically defined as well as sonically, which complicates things.
i also made something like this. it cover 17M entities across tracks albums artists and labels. posted on show hn a few times but it went unnoticed (hate u (joking))
Given this is Hacker News, this easily could have been some re-vamped "table" of metal elements or what the linked site ultimately is ... LOL. Personally, I am more happy with the actual site than metallurgy.
Looks great! However I'm not sure how it is supposed to work. Like, should it play doom when I click doom? For me it started with Black Sabbath, and it doesn't change
Swedish death is a specific sound like Entombed, which is fairly different than melo-death bands like In Flames.
I'm not entirely sure why those specific song choices for the Swedish Death category. The older At The Gates albums are more like the original Swedish sound but Slaughter of the Soul (included in Swedish Death) is essentially THE Melo-death album.
Mastodon isn't sludge in any way, mate... sludge is hardcore punk + (proto) doom metal. It's what the Melvins, the B-side of Black Flags's My War and early Flippers spawned, so mostly the NOLA scene (Eyehategod, Crowbar, Down, Acid Bath, Buzzoven, etc...) and "others" (Grief, Floor, 16).
Perhaps we need a word to disambiguate "atmosludge" from actual sludge, for the same reason "skramz" was invented.
m̈ëẗäl̈ üm̈l̈äüẗs̈ (awww, you can't put an umlaut on a space) (oh wow the HM font does not like what I just did. It looks fine in the monospace font)
why when i click the different links does new music representing that period not play? I expected to hear 1960's progenitors to metal when I clicked that section
Didn't expect to see something I made on HN while my wife is trying to find something to watch on TV.
So about the site in case anyone is interested. I made it with a friend who was studying multimedia. He helped with the data and I did the coding. Took about a week or two.
The site was originally Flash (remember that). But I ported it to HTML5 a few years ago. It still has those Flash vibes I think. Posted the code to GitHub when I ported it. I did this mostly to keep it alive for old times sake.
So about the mobile support. I planned to do it but got sidetracked building a custom WebGL map renderer because phone performance was poor. However I never finished, life finds a way to get in the way and all that... I have some mobile designs lying around.
The other issue was when I first built the site YouTube didn't really play ads much at all, just those little text ads, and you could embed the player really tiny. So it worked better. In the original flash version I actually hid the video player. But that got the site blacklisted from YouTube, I asked a Google engineer on a dev forum to put a word in and they removed the block, very different times, this was back when Google was a different beast, and you could chat to real people online and the dev communities were much smaller.
I have a illustration of a much bigger map in my sketchbook. It has a lot more subgenres and interconnected things like historical events and so on. But it's huge unfolded, like 2x1.5m or something ridiculous.
I miss those days when the web was full of weird and experimental stuff. I grew up with Newgrounds and Geocities, I'm sure it's all still out there buried under a giant pile of SEO optimised refuse.
Younger people would never understand how amazing the internet was back in the 90s. Particularly before ads and SEO became an industry.
Also Flash, most people don't realize what we lost with Flash. The amount of non-professional multimedia content available was so great. It was a cooking ground for people to experiment with animation ideas. Very low hanging fruit.
HTML5/Canvas/CSS just don't have that accessibility.
Now the internet is a complete different beast. There are 10 main websites that everyone sees only, and everyone wants to monetize. All content is full of "antipatterns" to maximize monetization. It's very very sad.
Aaaanyway, sorry for the rant. I love your website. I'm a Metalhead myself, and this year I'll go back to Wacken for a 2nd time after 15 years!!
You can sort of get that old-internet vibe today from the I2P network.
Thanks so much for this write up. It’s not often thought of that when you put something weird and experimental online just for fun that you’re signing up for years of careing and feeding. But that’s also kind of nice, it makes you go engage with your cool thing long after your impulse drove you to make it.
This is a cool thing. I hope you enjoyed remembering about it again today.
I was looking through this, seeing the years radius and having my expectations validated/refuted was really fun! Lots of yeah but no, or no way but yeah? The curation of it is really respectable no matter my own taste and that is something that is in real low stock. Thanks for making my day and I'll add a few respectful issues when I can
Maps, a great way to present music. Congrats for the work, brought back fond memories.
Very cool. Explored a lot of nodes, rekindled some old bands. I was wondering how this was vibe coded, since it was done so well, art wise. Then I read your post. This has such a different feel for whatever is usually made today, I really enjoyed it. Cheers
Source code repository: https://github.com/patrickgalbraith/mapofmetal.
> It still has those Flash vibes I think.
I can say I noticed. I wondered if the site had been Flash.
Very awesome. Thanks for sharing and for making this. Reminds me of the Metal Evolution documentary by BangerTV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmiqVYZHTIQ&list=PLgzW3ulw6T...
Any chance to get a high resolution photo of the sketchbook version? Would love to also have a look at that :)
Very nice! As soon as I saw the landing page and the loading/start button I immediately thought of Flash.
So glad you took the time to keep the site alive!
Absolutely fantastic project! I completely understand you've got other things going on, but for me on Firefox mobile, I'm seeing a YouTube pop-up window for Black Sabbath and I don't see any obvious way to close it.
If you switch to the desktop version in the menu it works fine
Sorry about that. Its definitely a desktop kinda experience anyway.
I see you chose the superior version of 43% Burnt by Dillinger. It blows my mind that he never became the new vocalist.
i haven't seen this since the flash days. so cool. glad you ported it so it's still accessible!
I'd love of this showed me the spiritual successors of a band / sub-genre even if they're not mainstream or well known. For example, I really love Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and a number of other "classic" Heavy Metal bands with a slow, hard but not sludgy brooding sound and amazing vocals. But it's hard finding modern acts with a similar sound. What tends to happen when I search for modern metal is I end up finding stuff that is more a descendant of speed metal, or thrash, or black metal... and none of that really strikes the right chord for me.
There used to be a thing like 20-ish years ago called Musicovery that could sort of do this if you clicked around.
The Sword might be what you're looking for - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL7ndxWgW5A
You ever heard of Every Noise at Once? You can search for an artist, see the genres they belong to, and then look for artists nearby in 2D musical space (oversimplified a bit to be fair) within that genre. I've found it's generally pretty accurate, and I've found plenty of new artists this way.
Unfortunately no longer being updated, but still has a fantastic backlog of new-ish artists.
Reminds me very much of https://music.ishkur.com/ which is the same kind of thing but for electronic music.
The original Ishkur's Guide is even more similar, here's a modern recreation of it: https://igorbrigadir.github.io/ishkurs-guide-dataset/
Wow thanks for sharing, went straight to Eurotrash and it didn't dissapoint
The descriptions are a bit more tongue-in-cheek, though. I love it.
Very nice map.
Historical comment only. I first listened to this music in the late 1970s. One big change in the story, over time, is how few people trace the sound to Hendrix now. (Not this map in particular. Metal fans I know would agree with the map.) I think (?) a common current viewpoint is that Led Zep [!?] was foundational but the genre really started with Black Sabbath and Judas Priest.
Which, definitions change. But in 1977 I listened to Purple Haze and, sure, it was "Psychedelic Rock" as indicated on the map. 100%! But it was also almost definitionally metal. Forty-nine years ago, I mean, not today.
[!?] I love Zeppelin. But I would have been laughed out of high school if I'd compared them to metal, or claimed they were even hard rock.
Love it, though it looks like the website got the HN hug of death.
One of my favorite documentaries to learn the history of metal is "metal: a headbanger's journey" (available on YouTube).
Great map. There might be some categories missing, couldn't find any Katatonia, Agalloch, Alcest nor Tiamat. Alcest and some Deftones are considered blackgaze and Agalloch, Wolves in the Throne Room fall more into grey metal.
It's interesting because some of these bands are older than these terms. Alcest wasn't considered blackgaze until albums inspired by their own sound became popular, for example.
Metal also has history where a genre is aesthetically defined as well as sonically, which complicates things.
Black Sabbath, the consensus originators of metal as a whole, weren’t considered metal until albums inspired by their sound became popular, either.
They (Black Sabbath) were booked as a blues band by Jazz Bilzen in 1970. People just didn't know where to bucket sort them at the time.
I see Tiamat at Goth Metal.
i also made something like this. it cover 17M entities across tracks albums artists and labels. posted on show hn a few times but it went unnoticed (hate u (joking))
https://toposonico.com/#lon=14.4313&lat=-1.0200&z=9.10&entit...
that's pretty cool, thanks!
thank you! :)
Given this is Hacker News, this easily could have been some re-vamped "table" of metal elements or what the linked site ultimately is ... LOL. Personally, I am more happy with the actual site than metallurgy.
Took awhile to figure out clicking the skull is the interactive element, I kept clicking the text label and nothing was happening
And here I was thinking it would be a materials science map
Very cool visual representation of metal history. I'm working on something similar for basketball history.
Reminds me of the works of Ward Shelley. Especially his History of Science Fiction.
https://www.artsy.net/artwork/ward-shelley-history-of-scienc...
Where can I find a full resolution version of that image?
Nevermind, I found this thing called Google that found it for me <g>
https://websites.umich.edu/~esrabkin/sf/HistoryOfSFVisualize...
Reminded me a bit on the design space of Metal logos: https://renecutura.eu/metalvis/
Looks great! However I'm not sure how it is supposed to work. Like, should it play doom when I click doom? For me it started with Black Sabbath, and it doesn't change
I see Judas Priest, I upvote.
The song "Ten Ton Hammer" from Machine Head is not right: it's showing another song. Besides that, fun experience!
Not sure why there is Swedish death metal when Melodic Death exists.
Swedish death is a specific sound like Entombed, which is fairly different than melo-death bands like In Flames.
I'm not entirely sure why those specific song choices for the Swedish Death category. The older At The Gates albums are more like the original Swedish sound but Slaughter of the Soul (included in Swedish Death) is essentially THE Melo-death album.
That live version of War Pigs is INSANE
Very nice work of art. (I don't really like the bullets though, they don't seem very metal-y to me. Scythes maybe, or flensing knives.)
It might be fun to have a sort of gazetteer for the map so we can find bands.
It's common enough that they are sold as an accessory. Search for "metal bullet belt".
really nice! For the inclined, there's also
https://www.metal-archives.com/
This website has instantly more relevance than 50% of the online news outlets out there.
Love it. gonna be listening yardbirds all day today. The map also feels like a jeans.
Seeing as this is HN, I was expecting something on chemical properties of iron etc, but was pleasantly surprised
Grateful it's not an agentic start-up.
Where would Mastodon be on this?
Sludge metal, where else...
Mastodon isn't sludge in any way, mate... sludge is hardcore punk + (proto) doom metal. It's what the Melvins, the B-side of Black Flags's My War and early Flippers spawned, so mostly the NOLA scene (Eyehategod, Crowbar, Down, Acid Bath, Buzzoven, etc...) and "others" (Grief, Floor, 16).
Perhaps we need a word to disambiguate "atmosludge" from actual sludge, for the same reason "skramz" was invented.
There is no need for anything else, on the Internet.
This is amazing! But I need SEARCH feature :)
Btw, the map interface is very well implemented, what is it based on?
Looking at the source, it seems to be using OpenSeadragon[0].
[0] https://openseadragon.github.io/
To be excapt: This is a Mäp of Metäl, no hair was cut in making the map.
As a German, metal umlauts look so confusing
m̈ëẗäl̈ üm̈l̈äüẗs̈ (awww, you can't put an umlaut on a space) (oh wow the HM font does not like what I just did. It looks fine in the monospace font)
Isn't the ¨ (U+00A8) character equivalent to an umlaut on a space?
I suppose you used ◌̈ (U+0308).
\m/
Most awesome site ever created.
Nu Metal not having any Linkin Park songs is a crime.
Mike Shinoda is fine with not being classified as Nu Metal https://blabbermouth.net/news/linkin-parks-mike-shinoda-says...
why when i click the different links does new music representing that period not play? I expected to hear 1960's progenitors to metal when I clicked that section
beautifully done!
Now that is a great map!